Anti Sway Bar

[Windbüchse]

Greetings all,

The rig was pretty 'floaty' after I added an air shock to the chair. A weekend of work resulted in this anti-sway bar and linkages. It utilizes a 43" - .650" diameter NASCAR bar with aluminum arms. Bronze bushings and 7/8" shaft collars locate it within a 1.5" steel tube. This assembly is bolted to the Terraplane frame and the design is self explanatory from the pix. The bar ends attach to the bike via a machined clamp on the swingarm and the chair swingarm using the bolt that is threaded to the bottom of the axle.

The setup preloads the chair suspension and its geometry favors right turns. The first test drive (no ballast) shows vastly improved handling - much flatter cornering and no more 'float'. The ride is stiffer, more akin to a sportscar than a cruiser. High speed handling was excellent before and has not suffered.

I've left all mounts hardware-only for future mods as needed. More test rides are planned for Friday and the weekend. If any problems or Ah-ha moments, I'll report back.


Later, Martin

 

[Ray-Paige]

Great looking job. Keep us up to date. Of real interest to me, since I am still in the midst of the rebuild/restoration of my T-Plane. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Kynan C.]

Great information. Love to see additions to a products to make them safer.

 

[trikebldr]

EXCELLENT! Nice installation.

 

[Windbüchse]

With ~1000 miles on the swaybar/airshock combo, canyon driving is soooo much more enjoyable. Super slab riding is comfortable and handles the chop on the I-5 very well. I've bought a .800" diam bar to experiment with but haven't installed it yet.

Next mod will be eliminating the right muffler and installing a removable, vertical aluminum fuel tank between the chair and bike. Should give me ~12 gallons total fuel.

Later, Martin

 

[trikebldr]

Martin, I have long been inspired by your TP. That dual-level rack on back is of interest, especially since I have a kennel to carry my dog in and that rack would be perfect for holding it plus giving me extra space for more stuff above it.
I've never read any answer to the question, but is that a close clone to the TP body, or is that a highly modified TP? It does look much better, but I wouldn't like not having a top that opens for entry.
Your sway bar system has given me new inspiration. I have been pondering how to apply a linear actuator to adjust the ride height/bike lean with buttons. After seeing your sway bar I can now see the possibility of using a torsion bar/plain shock suspension PLUS the sway bar. I like your thinking on this addition! I'll have to think on this a bit, because an air shock does make things simpler. Also, I will look into using that original crosstube for the stock suspension to pass my torsion bar through for the sway bar. We shall see. Now, if the weather would just warm up a bit so I can go sit and stare at the car and ponder the possibilities!
Boy, I do know about the chop on I-5!! I lived in So. Calif. for a long time and when my bob-tail truck was empty, the rear wheels would show air under them from the washboard effect! Good thing I didn't have dentures, or I wouldn't have dentures!
What was your source on that sway bar system? Do you really think the .800" bar is necessary? I'm a long distance cruiser, so a gentle ride is most important to me. I would think that the stiffer bar might be too much for me, especially since you commented about how it made the rig ride like a sports car.
I, too, am making an aluminum gas tank that will fit alongside the car between the lower struts. 6" wide, 8" tall at the front end, 10" tall at the rear, 30" long. It alone will hold 7 gallons along with the 7.5 gallons of my bike's tank. If I build it with an extra deep sump that drops down between the lower mounts a bit, I can add another 2.8 gallons. Not so sure I want something like that hanging down so low, though. The bottom of the tank will already be made from 1/4" plate. And, 7 extra gallons will take me farther than my body will want to go! It's just nice to have the range and options. I'm tired of carrying strap on cans!
Will be interested to see the design of your tank!

Bruce (trikebldr)

 

[Windbüchse]

Greetings Bruce,

"I've never read any answer to the question, but is that a close clone to the TP body, or is that a highly modified TP? It does look much better, but I wouldn't like not having a top that opens for entry. "

A PO had bonded the lid to the body and filed in all the gaps. My son likes it, especially after I removed the windshield. He sits on the fender and swings his legs in. One reason I went with the TP is that he is 6'2" and the TP is the longest sidecar I've seen. He's quite comfortable.

" Also, I will look into using that original crosstube for the stock suspension to pass my torsion bar through for the sway bar."

I looked into doing that - it would require a complete rework of the suspension adding a hollow shaft and larger bearings in the leading arm. I think it would be easier to fabricate a new leading arm assembly incorporating a trailer hub with disc brake.

"What was your source on that sway bar system?"

Ebay - search for NASCAR 7/8" Swaybar. The 42" - 43" length bar is perfect for my rig. Bars, arms, bearings are available. I had the tubing left over from another project, a bucket of bronze bearing stock, various angle, strap and tubing and a spare weekend. Oh, and my own machine shop....

"Do you really think the .800" bar is necessary?"

No, for general riding the .650 is fine. We live in the mountains and spend more than half our time on windy roads. The .800" is for experimentation.

"Will be interested to see the design of your tank"

A 10" diam 20" tall aluminum tank with brackets to attach the straps to the swaybar and upper rear strut. A quick disconnect fuel fitting with a pin system will allow on/off flexibility. Might just leave it on all the time and leave the tugs tank empty to move the CG lower and rearward to further improve the handling. I've already located a larger battery in the trunk to that end. I'll need to take care though, the rig can lift the front wheel with aggressive throttle from a stop now.
http://shop.spunaluminumgastanks.com/10x20-Vertical-Spun-Aluminum-Gas-Tank-675-Gallon-V-1020.htm

Be interesting to see your ideas.


Later, Martin

 

[trikebldr]

The idea that I had was to make the leading arm the end of the sway bar, using a needle (or roller) bearing to fit inside that cross tube and around the torsion shaft. Yep, lots of rework, but it sure would simplify things.

I've made several fuel and oil-separator tanks for my race cars in the past, so playing with aluminum is pure fun for me. I gently round over the edges of the top and bottom before welding to the sheet sides. In the case for this sidecar I think a thicker 1/4" plate bottom would be wise, if not a 1/4" front end, too.

Here's a pic of the 15 gallon tank on my current buggy. I'll never use a screw-on aluminum cap and neck again, though! Either a 1/4-turn or flip cap. The filler neck goes all the way down into that little sump under the tank. The vent starts in the top and exits out the bottom of the tank. The pickup also starts in that little sump, but goes to the top of the tank before exiting. It's a no-spill roll-over system. It also has directional baffles to assist the fuel flowing towards that sump.
The sidecar tank will have all of the same features, but will be more of a trapezoid, or wedge, shape.

 

[Windbüchse]

"The idea that I had was to make the leading arm the end of the sway bar, using a needle (or roller) bearing to fit inside that cross tube and around the torsion shaft. Yep, lots of rework, but it sure would simplify things."

The other problem is the bike end of the sway bar coming out of the chassis tube is not in a good position to actuate the bike swing arm. Another reason I went with a separate tube further back and lower. The chassis tube would be excellent for a torsion bar or rubber suspension as in a trailer swing arm.


"Here's a pic of the 15 gallon tank on my current buggy. I'll never use a screw-on aluminum cap and neck again, though! The sidecar tank will have all of the same features, but will be more of a trapezoid, or wedge, shape."

You exhibit mad fabrication skills - well beyond mine. The vertical tank I propose has several compromises, but is quick and inexpensive to implement. What you propose is far superior and more centered under the CG of the rig. What problems did you have with the screw on lid?

Thanx, Martin

 

[trikebldr]

I agree that the bike end of the sway bar is sticking way out, unsupported, so it would need to be braced in two planes to be effective. Also, most torsion bar ends are connected to other appendages by means of links. On our sprint cars we used teflon (or nylon) blocks attached to a pad for that suspension bar end to ride against for the support of the car, and for the sway bar part it gets a bit more complex, but not difficult. I would need a good pic to explain, but don't have any on hand. Sorry. I wish I did.

Yesterday I watched a video of a Hannigan sidecar rolling down the street and wondered how it cleared the grains of sand in the street as it passed over them! As you know, our TP's have quite a bit of ground clearance and there's no reason not to use some of that space underneath, as you have done, to mount your sway system. I like that. I see it also allowed you to position that bar end correctly for easy connection to the swingarm as well as the leading arm.

Do you Tig weld? I was a machinist many years ago, too, and had my own Bridgeport mill and a small Logan turret lathe for a long time. now I'm downsized to just a 9x20 Enco lathe and a Saig bench-top mill for small work. I sure miss my Bridgeport! I still have all of my welders. I am aircraft certfied in welding, and self taught in massaging metals. I think you would find it extremely easy to learn how to do basic shaping of aluminum to be able to build almost any shape of tank you wanted.

Have you ever tried metal pushing on a lathe? That's where you make a wooden "buck" that mounts to a faceplate, then chuck up a piece of sheet metal and using wooden, leather, nylon and metal "spoons", and lots of oil, you push the sheet metal around the buck (as it spins) to take it's shape. It's also called metal spinning. That's how they made those end caps on the tank you are looking at. Much cheaper than making the press dies and pressing them out. You could easily do that! And, if you can Tig weld, you could roll a sheet of aluminum to form the main tube part. You don't even have to get fancy with the shape of those end caps. just some 1/8" or 1/4" would make a nice solid end cap at both ends.

Aside from making one from scratch, you could add all of the no-spill safety features to the tank you are looking at. just slip a large tube inside the filler neck that reaches almost to the bottom and weld i to the base of the neck. Remove the outlet on the bottom and make a new one with a long tube that reaches the top and use that one as a vent. make another 1/4" bung with a long tube that reaches from the top of the tank all the way to the bottom and weld it into the top. That's your pickup. I'm sure you can make up all of these bungs and tubes. Very little welding involved, actually. I would also replace that vented cap with a sealed one after you establish a bottom-to-top vent tube.

Can you take some good pics of the space between the bike and car, showing what kind of space is available along the sidecar? I will try to mock up a copy of my tank out of cardboard to show you what I have in mind. Yes, it definitely will lower my CoG. It will fill a wasted area, too.

Did you make that rack on your TP? I see a lot of fine metal work in that and other places on your rig.

 

[trikebldr]

BTW, an aluminum screw-on cap on an aluminum filler neck is a bad combination. Aluminum is rather "gummy" against itself and is very sensitive to getting the threads timed and aligned right before screwing it on. I don't let anybody touch my tank because of that. Most folks will just think it needs a little more force, and then I have crossed threads! I wish I had a steel cap to use on that aluminum filler neck. A 1/4-turn cap is the best! I even use bee's wax to "lube" the threads to keep them from sticking when snugged up. I also use bee's wax to machine some aluminum parts for better finish, too!

 

[Windbüchse]

"BTW, an aluminum screw-on cap on an aluminum filler neck is a bad combination."

I hadn't noticed that the cap is also aluminum. Galling and cross threading would be a problem.

 

[Windbüchse]

"Do you Tig weld?"

Picked up a Tig/plasma cutter combo from Eastwood last year but haven't found the time to set them up and learn their use.

"I was a machinist many years ago, too, and had my own Bridgeport mill and a small Logan turret lathe for a long time."

Presently I have a Bridgeport, South Bend 10K and Clausing 12X40 lathes. The Clausing is older than me.

"Have you ever tried metal pushing on a lathe?"

I worked my way through undergrad as a machinist in the early/mid 70's. One place made solenoids and we would spin the ends of the shells out of a magnetic SS alloy - miserable stuff - work hardened easily.

"Remove the outlet on the bottom and make a new one with a long tube that reaches the top and use that one as a vent."

Using a bottom vent allows overflow to go out the bottom to be less messy?

"Did you make that rack on your TP? I see a lot of fine metal work in that and other places on your rig."

No, the rig came with the rack and mounts - it is nice work though. I'll take some pix and measurements of the space between the tug and chair- - tomorrow.

Martin

 

[trikebldr]

"Remove the outlet on the bottom and make a new one with a long tube that reaches the top and use that one as a vent."

Using a bottom vent allows overflow to go out the bottom to be less messy?

There's a two-fold purpose to this. First, it does vent any overflow under the car rather than have any of it run down the side of the tank from the vented cap as the fuel expands on a really hot day. At best, there will be some sloshing that will make some fuel come out the cap's vent hole and make a mess on top of the tank. Secondly, by running that vent tube all the way to the top of the tank, but exiting out the bottom, it constitutes a spill proof arrangement of the vent in case the tank were to be overturned. Also, that tube would need to be at one side near the top, but at the opposite side where it exits the bottom.

This method of preventing spills is old school racing practice, before fuel cells. Much cheaper, too! Of course, to have a fuel bladder made to fit into a canister would be the very best, and safest system.