Vetter Terraplane


Riggs

Grasshopper
I have a 2002 HD Road King Classic and a Vetter Terraplane side car. I really want to put the two together! Can it safely be done? I like how durable and safe the side car is. It would be great for my son and grandson to ride in while me and my wife are on the bike. I have all the mounting hardware from the Gold Wing it came off of. Anyway, I was just wanting your opinion. Thank You so much!
 

brianinpa

Five Star Vetteral
Country flag
Welcome to the forum! Can it be done safely... sure! Can it be done with the hardware that you have... probably not without modifying it. You should be in good shape though as you have a set of hardware to start modifying.
 

trikebldr

Learning the Ropes
As Brian said, you at least have the basic hardware to do the job,.....maybe. Each bike is unique in it's requirements to safely connect to a sidecar. Heavier bikes, like yours, require even more considerations. For example, one of the biggest contributing factors to steering wobble on a sidecar is when the car's frame/body can flex in regards to the bike's frame, setting up an oscillation in the steering. So, it is very important to have a very solid connection. Sorry Craig Vetter, but your three-link design just doesn't work well with heavier bikes! There is too much flex at the front of the car when the weight of the bike is on the car. AND, the on-the-fly lean adjustment of that rear upper link also contributes to that not-so-solid connection. You also cannot have an on-the-fly lean adjustment with a fourth link up front. So, the three link system is a flexible compromise and not good for heavier bikes. having said that, I must say that my own bike is even heavier than yours, Riggs! When I mounted mine I started from scratch and fabricated extremely heavy duty struts and used a four link system. I scrapped that adjustable on-the-fly upper rear link completely. Good thing I never intended to use it because the spherical rod ends on it were completely worn out anyway, and it's rubber boot was torn to shreds. Completely new base plates that bolt to the sidecar's plates were made up from 3/8" steel plate. Instead of the original 1" OD, 1/8" wall thickness tubing used for the struts I used 1-1/2" OD with .157" wall tubing. The more angle you can achieve between the upper and lower mounts, up to about 45 to 60 degrees, the stiffer the whole system will be, too. I did use the two little drilled tabs that the rear adjustable link used to connect to. I wished they were heavier, but they were the ONLY upper link connection on the original three link design, and they are still there, undamaged, so they must be suitable for the rear upper link in a four link system! A new boot will have to be found, though, or, as I am doing, an aluminum shield cut to fit snugly around those tabs, then sealed with a caulk.
Attaching the links to the sidecar is really easy! Finding the CORRECT places to connect to the bike is often very difficult, and generates the most controversy among installers! Ask 50 of them and get 50 different ideas! The basic bottom line is to keep each of the four points as close to the bike's frame, or actually on it, as possible to create a solid connection that won't slip or crush the frame tubing. A lot of guys will tell you to never connect to a "crash bar". It all depends! Some of them are huge loops of tubing, mounted with ungraded bolts or even self-tapping screws, and are mostly decorative. Never mount to those! If they have short lengths of tubing, are connected at three or more points and use better grade bolts of at least 3/8" or 10mm diameter into a frame member, then it can be used. As for clamps, never use the "highway peg" style of clamps with the stepped washers for more grip into the tubing. They will crush the tubing with their smaller contact area and will also slip eventually, tearing away part of the tubing's surface.
one last consideration is to try to keep the two lower connections to the bike as much inline axially as possible to help in future adjustments of bike lean in/out. if they don't line up very well, it will cause bind in both of them as you move the bike to adjust for lean. Heim joints (spherical rod ends) work well to accommodate this need, but these joints will wear rapidly and loosen up, contributing again to possible steering wobble. A good, solid, tight connection is best, even if it does require more work to make the lean adjustment.
I have a Kawasaki Voyager 1300 that weighs 960lbs, empty, closer to 1000lbs ready to ride. It demands a four link, extremely solid mounting system to get by without using a leading link front end. I haven't even had to use a steering damper yet.
I have posted the whole build story with 32 pics of making the parts over on the KZ1300.com site as well the AVA forums. If interested I can get the links to my threads on them if you are willing to sign up. I
29.jpg
30.jpg
31.jpg
32.jpg
could also post up all of my pics here, too.
 

Riggs

Grasshopper
As Brian said, you at least have the basic hardware to do the job,.....maybe. Each bike is unique in it's requirements to safely connect to a sidecar. Heavier bikes, like yours, require even more considerations. For example, one of the biggest contributing factors to steering wobble on a sidecar is when the car's frame/body can flex in regards to the bike's frame, setting up an oscillation in the steering. So, it is very important to have a very solid connection. Sorry Craig Vetter, but your three-link design just doesn't work well with heavier bikes! There is too much flex at the front of the car when the weight of the bike is on the car. AND, the on-the-fly lean adjustment of that rear upper link also contributes to that not-so-solid connection. You also cannot have an on-the-fly lean adjustment with a fourth link up front. So, the three link system is a flexible compromise and not good for heavier bikes. having said that, I must say that my own bike is even heavier than yours, Riggs! When I mounted mine I started from scratch and fabricated extremely heavy duty struts and used a four link system. I scrapped that adjustable on-the-fly upper rear link completely. Good thing I never intended to use it because the spherical rod ends on it were completely worn out anyway, and it's rubber boot was torn to shreds. Completely new base plates that bolt to the sidecar's plates were made up from 3/8" steel plate. Instead of the original 1" OD, 1/8" wall thickness tubing used for the struts I used 1-1/2" OD with .157" wall tubing. The more angle you can achieve between the upper and lower mounts, up to about 45 to 60 degrees, the stiffer the whole system will be, too. I did use the two little drilled tabs that the rear adjustable link used to connect to. I wished they were heavier, but they were the ONLY upper link connection on the original three link design, and they are still there, undamaged, so they must be suitable for the rear upper link in a four link system! A new boot will have to be found, though, or, as I am doing, an aluminum shield cut to fit snugly around those tabs, then sealed with a caulk.
Attaching the links to the sidecar is really easy! Finding the CORRECT places to connect to the bike is often very difficult, and generates the most controversy among installers! Ask 50 of them and get 50 different ideas! The basic bottom line is to keep each of the four points as close to the bike's frame, or actually on it, as possible to create a solid connection that won't slip or crush the frame tubing. A lot of guys will tell you to never connect to a "crash bar". It all depends! Some of them are huge loops of tubing, mounted with ungraded bolts or even self-tapping screws, and are mostly decorative. Never mount to those! If they have short lengths of tubing, are connected at three or more points and use better grade bolts of at least 3/8" or 10mm diameter into a frame member, then it can be used. As for clamps, never use the "highway peg" style of clamps with the stepped washers for more grip into the tubing. They will crush the tubing with their smaller contact area and will also slip eventually, tearing away part of the tubing's surface.
one last consideration is to try to keep the two lower connections to the bike as much inline axially as possible to help in future adjustments of bike lean in/out. if they don't line up very well, it will cause bind in both of them as you move the bike to adjust for lean. Heim joints (spherical rod ends) work well to accommodate this need, but these joints will wear rapidly and loosen up, contributing again to possible steering wobble. A good, solid, tight connection is best, even if it does require more work to make the lean adjustment.
I have a Kawasaki Voyager 1300 that weighs 960lbs, empty, closer to 1000lbs ready to ride. It demands a four link, extremely solid mounting system to get by without using a leading link front end. I haven't even had to use a steering damper yet.
I have posted the whole build story with 32 pics of making the parts over on the KZ1300.com site as well the AVA forums. If interested I can get the links to my threads on them if you are willing to sign up. IView attachment 2006 View attachment 2007 View attachment 2008 View attachment 2009 could also post up all of my pics here, too.
Thank you so much for all the detailed information. I've been stressing so much over what to do. There's a place in California that sells a 4 point system for a Harley to Terriplane hook up but for $1500. I hate spending that much money but how do you put a price on safety, especially when it comes to your wive, son and grandson? I now feel like I have another option so thank you again. I'd definitely like a link to your build process!
Sincerely,
Randy Riggs
 

trikebldr

Learning the Ropes
Randy,

Where are you located?

$1500 for the kit sounds awfully high! Maybe I should get into the business! If you were anywhere near enough to Kansas CIty to bring the bike/car, I would love to do the connection. Harleys are pretty easy to connect to since a lot of their frame is exposed for clamping to!

I have posted my build thread on two other forums. First is the KZ1300.com website. We are all about the Kawasaki 1300cc six cylinder engines on that forum. Might not be the best for you, but here's the link to the thread on that forum if you care to join;
http://www.kz1300.com/index.php/for...ng-a-1979-vetter-terraplane-to-a-1984-voyager

The other forum is the AVA (American Voyager Association). It's not about the Kawasaki Voyager per-se, but most members seem to ride the Voyager family of big cruisers. It would probably be a much more useful and interesting forum for you since it is all about long-distance cruising. Yes, we have lots of Hondas and Harleys over there, too, so you would fit right in. I'm seen as a bit of a rebel since I drag a sidecar along, too! Not many over there! Oh, and some of the threads, like mine, are in the members-only section. It costs just $20/year to join
Anyway, here's the link to my build thread on that forum;
https://amervoyassoc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=9477

Maybe I should just repeat the more detailed thread (KZ1300.com) here. What do you think?

Before spending that $1500 for that California kit. let's talk more. Maybe I can coach you through it and make up the parts for it.

Bruce (trikebldr)
 

Mike324

Vetter Aficionado
Country flag
Randy,

Where are you located?

$1500 for the kit sounds awfully high! Maybe I should get into the business! If you were anywhere near enough to Kansas CIty to bring the bike/car, I would love to do the connection. Harleys are pretty easy to connect to since a lot of their frame is exposed for clamping to!

I have posted my build thread on two other forums. First is the KZ1300.com website. We are all about the Kawasaki 1300cc six cylinder engines on that forum. Might not be the best for you, but here's the link to the thread on that forum if you care to join;
http://www.kz1300.com/index.php/for...ng-a-1979-vetter-terraplane-to-a-1984-voyager

The other forum is the AVA (American Voyager Association). It's not about the Kawasaki Voyager per-se, but most members seem to ride the Voyager family of big cruisers. It would probably be a much more useful and interesting forum for you since it is all about long-distance cruising. Yes, we have lots of Hondas and Harleys over there, too, so you would fit right in. I'm seen as a bit of a rebel since I drag a sidecar along, too! Not many over there! Oh, and some of the threads, like mine, are in the members-only section. It costs just $20/year to join
Anyway, here's the link to my build thread on that forum;
https://amervoyassoc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=9477

Maybe I should just repeat the more detailed thread (KZ1300.com) here. What do you think?

Before spending that $1500 for that California kit. let's talk more. Maybe I can coach you through it and make up the parts for it.

Bruce (trikebldr)
Nice work Bruce! They look great together. Mike
 

Riggs

Grasshopper
Randy,

Where are you located?

$1500 for the kit sounds awfully high! Maybe I should get into the business! If you were anywhere near enough to Kansas CIty to bring the bike/car, I would love to do the connection. Harleys are pretty easy to connect to since a lot of their frame is exposed for clamping to!

I have posted my build thread on two other forums. First is the KZ1300.com website. We are all about the Kawasaki 1300cc six cylinder engines on that forum. Might not be the best for you, but here's the link to the thread on that forum if you care to join;
http://www.kz1300.com/index.php/for...ng-a-1979-vetter-terraplane-to-a-1984-voyager

The other forum is the AVA (American Voyager Association). It's not about the Kawasaki Voyager per-se, but most members seem to ride the Voyager family of big cruisers. It would probably be a much more useful and interesting forum for you since it is all about long-distance cruising. Yes, we have lots of Hondas and Harleys over there, too, so you would fit right in. I'm seen as a bit of a rebel since I drag a sidecar along, too! Not many over there! Oh, and some of the threads, like mine, are in the members-only section. It costs just $20/year to join
Anyway, here's the link to my build thread on that forum;
https://amervoyassoc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=9477

Maybe I should just repeat the more detailed thread (KZ1300.com) here. What do you think?

Before spending that $1500 for that California kit. let's talk more. Maybe I can coach you through it and make up the parts for it.

Bruce (trikebldr)
I appreciate your willingness to help me. I wish I lived closer to where you are, I'm in Kokomo, Indiana. I looked at some pics on the KZ1300.com and I'm beginning to understand what needs to be done. I'm confident that with your pics and coaching, this may be less painful than I thought. I have a good fabricator who's willing to help me too.
While I'm thinking of it, does the axle on the sidecar have to line up with the rear axle of the bike?
Thanks Bruce,
Sincerely,
Randy Riggs
 

Riggs

Grasshopper
I appreciate your willingness to help me. I wish I lived closer to where you are, I'm in Kokomo, Indiana. I looked at some pics on the KZ1300.com and I'm beginning to understand what needs to be done. I'm confident that with your pics and coaching, this may be less painful than I thought. I have a good fabricator who's willing to help me too.
While I'm thinking of it, does the axle on the sidecar have to line up with the rear axle of the bike?
Thanks Bruce,
Sincerely,
Randy Riggs
Bruce,
I looked at your pics and I have to say that I'm very impressed! I can recognize talent when I see it. I don't have the tools or the know how to do what you did but I have a buddy who does.
 

trikebldr

Learning the Ropes
Randy,
There are three basics to setting up a sidecar for the first time. To start, the axle of the sidecar should "lead" the bike's rear axle by about 15% of the bike's wheelbase. Second, the bike needs to be set at about a 2 degree lean away from the sidecar to compensate for road crown. Third, some toe-in of the sidecar's wheel to the centerline of the bike needs to be dialed in. The axle lead is something that is not too critical, but needs to be close. The lean angle and toe-in settings will need to be fine tuned after the installation is complete. It takes a while to get it all just right to prevent tire scrub (wear) and to make the bike not pull either way OVERALL on different road conditions. The fourth ingredient in mounting a sidecar is LOTS of patience! I will look for my mounting instructions and try to post them.
Feel free to take my pics to your friend to look at and maybe between us we can get your car hooked up! You might also want to go join the USCA (United SideCar Association) and look through their technical section. They have lots of pubs that tell about mounting, tuning and riding safety. If this is your first sidecar rig, I HIGHLY URGE you to either take one of the classes or get as much info as you can and practice handling that rig in a huge parking lot before getting out on the road. Two of my rigs have been crashed by friends who rode solo bikes and just wanted to try a sidecar machine. Now, NOBODY ever rides my rigs!
 

Mike324

Vetter Aficionado
Country flag
Bruce, The XS needs new brakes, tires, and a carb clean all of which I hope to do by October, so I will run the TP with the Gold Wing this summer. Would be interested in seeing some of your pics in the Vetter gallery. Read through your post on the KZ site - very interesting to follow your detailed description. How does it feel when riding? Do you still have a lot of adjusting to do? Mike
 

trikebldr

Learning the Ropes
This rig has taught me the truth about the old saying that we never know sweet until we suck a lemon! My '83 Voyager and Motorvation Spyder sidecar from the '80's was a wonderful rig and took me all over the 'States, but I never realized how soft it's rigging was against that big bike. Well, my '84 here is the same, exact bike, and it feels so positive compared to the Spyder rig. I'm VERY glad I used much heavier materials to mount my TP than was used on the Spyder.
My initial rides were still inconclusive since I didn't have a full load of ballast. I was mainly looking for any tire scrub indications to get my toe-in set correctly. I used 2 degrees of bike lean-out to start and that part seems to be good. Might need bit more to give an average neutral steering with a passenger or full ballast. I don't want to go much more or I will feel like I am falling off the bike to the left.
I still have a lot of road time to do and make fine adjustments before I will be happy. One noticeable difference with this TP is that it comes down much softer after "bicycling" the rig! I think the stiffer rigging transfers more of the bike's weight onto the car during the landing and makes the shock/spring on the sidecar work more, softening the landing. I'm very happy with it! However, I am seriously considering adding the air shock and sway bar systems that Windbuchse used.
 

trikebldr

Learning the Ropes
Randy,

Here's a pretty good writeup of how to basically set up a sidecar to the bike. He uses the 8-10" rule for wheel lead rather than the 15%. 8-10" is fine for earlier Gold Wings and such, but longer bikes and shorter bikes need a percentage value applied. Some installers also use a 1/8" rear wheel leanout as the value rather than 2 degrees. Toe-in should be about 3/4" to start, and then watch the sidecar's tire tread for signs of scrubbing. That will look like a feather on one edge of a block, and a rounded edge on the other side. It took me about six tries to get my adjustments right-on with my first sidecar. Toe-in is the most important to get right first. It will affect how quickly your sidecar tire wears. The lean angle will simply affect how much your bike tends to pull one way or the other on a road with lots of crown. Of course, that means you will have to steer harder to overcome any pull, and it will also cause more bike tire wear, too, but not nearly as much as the toe-in.

http://www.warkshop.com/sidecarinstall.html
 

Riggs

Grasshopper
Randy,

Here's a pretty good writeup of how to basically set up a sidecar to the bike. He uses the 8-10" rule for wheel lead rather than the 15%. 8-10" is fine for earlier Gold Wings and such, but longer bikes and shorter bikes need a percentage value applied. Some installers also use a 1/8" rear wheel leanout as the value rather than 2 degrees. Toe-in should be about 3/4" to start, and then watch the sidecar's tire tread for signs of scrubbing. That will look like a feather on one edge of a block, and a rounded edge on the other side. It took me about six tries to get my adjustments right-on with my first sidecar. Toe-in is the most important to get right first. It will affect how quickly your sidecar tire wears. The lean angle will simply affect how much your bike tends to pull one way or the other on a road with lots of crown. Of course, that means you will have to steer harder to overcome any pull, and it will also cause more bike tire wear, too, but not nearly as much as the toe-in.

http://www.warkshop.com/sidecarinstall.html
Thank you for the info. What do you think about purchasing just the Bike mounts from DMC and then building from there? They're $800, which more than I want to spend but if it makes this project easier and in the end I have a safe and reliable rig, I'll bite the bullet.
 

trikebldr

Learning the Ropes
Wow, I missed seeing you last reply here. As far as buying from DMC, can't go wrong there! Jay has nothing but great hardware and advice. Yes, a bit pricey, as all of them are, but he has put a LOT of engineering into everything he makes and all of his installs have many years of experience behind them. I think he has the largest selection of bike-specific hardware, too, such as subframes and clamps/struts.
Don't forget to post pics as you go!
 

Riggs

Grasshopper
Wow, I missed seeing you last reply here. As far as buying from DMC, can't go wrong there! Jay has nothing but great hardware and advice. Yes, a bit pricey, as all of them are, but he has put a LOT of engineering into everything he makes and all of his installs have many years of experience behind them. I think he has the largest selection of bike-specific hardware, too, such as subframes and clamps/struts.
Don't forget to post pics as you go!
Thanks for your reply. I'm getting ready to order the mounts from DMC. I can't wait to see what I get. Will keep you updated and post pics.
 

Riggs

Grasshopper
I finally ordered the bike mounts and Terraplane mounts from DMC last week. They said it'd be 3 to 4 weeks wait time because they had to be made first. I paid $1500 for the side car, just paid $1500 for the mounts and will probably be another $1000 for a paint job and a matching wheel. After all that, it's still at least $2000 cheaper than buying a new side car plus I think the Vetter is probably one of the safest rigs made. I'll be sure to post pics of the whole process.
 

trikebldr

Learning the Ropes
What will you be matching your wheel to? Will you have the brake? Yeah, pics, we want to see pics. LOTS of pics!
This is my latest.

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